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12-21-2006, 11:22 PM FinalTable Joined on 12-15-2006 Posts 4 Loose Players Ran into a problem today. For 2 SNGs I ended up in 2nd place. Then I hit a bad turn and went 3 straight placing at 4 or lower. The problem in both games were the same. In the first game, I ran into 3 players that were stealing blinds with All-Ins preflop at times where I would have no hand (7c 2d for instance). I was getting blinded away while the guys just kept exchanging the pots. The lower chip stack would go All-In and the higher stack would call. The Lower stack wins so chips just kept moving around table. Finally I was at the inflection point and I had a decent hand - nothing great (8 8) and was beaten. Second game - same thing...but with only 2 very loose players. Same story. Blinded down until I had to go All-In. Everytime I'd bet a decent (not great) hand - I'd get reraised w/ an All-In. 2 choices - either hope I draw out to beat him, or fold and give him my blind and raise. If I didn't raise, he'd still go All-In and steal the blinds. Everytime I had decent hand to call, I'd get beaten at showdown or knew I was beat on flop and had to lay it down. How do you win against these types of players? I felt like it was almost a play money table. It was at 3.40 buy in SNGs. I would like to move up and get into games w/ more serious players - but my bankroll (and wife) won't support it. BTW: I play at PokerStars - maybe that's the problem? LATE at night, I do a lot better...so maybe I'm playing younger kids during the day. I'd watch a couple of these guys get knocked out and thought maybe that slow the play down some - NOPE. Now someone just doubled up and starts it over again. I just can't see the point in going All-In just to steal blinds. If All-In gets others to fold, so would a 3/4 or pot size bet. Why risk your tourney life preflop to steal blinds? Should I just take more chances and call these guys w/ a less than stellar hand (high pair)? Seems like that would make a lot of short tourneys. If PokerStars is the problem - any recommendations on sites w/ lower stakes where players still play somewhat rationally?    Report

02-02-2007, 12:09 PM tp3rd Joined on 01-26-2007 chicago Posts 4 Re: Loose Players You have to be very selective on the hands you play until 1/2 the field has been eiminated Usually by then most of the loose cannons are gone or just barely hanging on or just very lucky. Either way the lucky ones time is numbered and theyll be eliminated too. Play gets tighter and more legit once 1/2 are gone,so my advice to you is to just play very very tight until then.    Report

02-02-2007, 2:48 PM skinroy Joined on 02-26-2006 just north of chicago Posts 671 Re: Loose Players butt boy oh boy it is nice when those loose cannons give all their chips to you tho in the first few hands i'm a little fish lookin to be eaten by a shark    Report

01-05-2008, 7:00 PM bamasredhead Joined on 01-06-2008 Posts 3 Re: Loose Players Well i like to see those loose players, means i know ill have shot to win, cause i ply a tight game, and on that note have lost to loose player just cause they got lucky on the turn and river. But i Guess that Poker or what they say anyway. glgl Bonnie    Report

01-13-2008, 7:56 PM greenblood Joined on 01-14-2008 Posts 4 Re: Loose Players i just watched the 5th annual world poker players conference, and Lee Jones (first speaker) gives us a proven strategy for playing heads up when the blind/small stack ratio is 10 or less. It's proven with math, not just an idea, and it includes an easy chart to go by. Generally speaking, both players should be jamming/calling extremely often in this situation, and to not do so is to give up EV. It's also an unexploitable strategy, one that can't be countered. This isn't the same for 3 remaining players, though, but still very very good info to have if you play sngs.    Report

01-19-2008, 6:44 AM BamaDoug Joined on 12-14-2007 Posts 26 Re: Loose Players Let them play and take each other out. Don't get into that all-in match without premium cards. And I mean real premium. If you are playing with 9 players, you really don't have to play a hand at all unless you have really premium cards. The chips are not going anywhere. They are still on the table, and you will be too if you don't get caught up in that mess. Play very tight and pay close attention to position. Your chips have much more value towards the end of the game and making it to the end is the only way to be sure you will get paid. Sometimes, even if they have stolen the last 5 times, you are still best to fold less than premium hands because he actually may have ak when you get mad and try to call with kq. The games won't last that long when people are playing this way, thus the blinds will still not be that bad and you will still have almost all of your chips if you fold instead of fighting back with mediocre cards. If you find yourself having to call because of a really short stack.. I would call with 54s, t8, and hands like that.. If you think they are stealing with ace rag or such.. put them all in with your pocket 3's. You will be surprised at how many times you win that bet. Try to isolate them to a one-on-one situation and when you pair your 56 with a good draw also and they bet again... put them all in if the flop is low and you pair anything..... THEN bet real hard into them. After you double up on them a couple times like this.. they will stop or go broke. But like I said at the start. You do not have to play thier game.. Make them play your game. When I'm at a table.. I don't care if Phil Ivey is there. IT'S MY TABLE. Make him call your raises and not the other way around. The best way to calm down an aggressive thief is to trick them or just wait on your cards and take them out. You will get the cards to take them out eventually since you have position on them. Just dont' let your anger for that player make you do silly things. That's exactly what he wants. Most small sit and go games only require 2 or 3 well played hands to get the chip lead or into the money. Then you can play loose with them if you want to because you have already at least got your entry fee secured. I would suggest reading "Online Ace" by Scott Fischer. I have a feeling this will give you more understanding of the differences in online play vs. live play. In a sentence... most pro's will tell you to call and raise this loose player much more often but you will get donked out on anyway half the time so wait and pick your spots. And sometimes that means doing it on a total bluff. If he's really stealing, a semibluff works best against him in my opinion. I have seen so many people call these raises just because they are mad. They will call them to the river and then fold with 200 chips left after he keeps betting. If I have that much money in the pot. He better have something because I'm gonna call him if I have anything. Of course, as I said before. You don't have to play this way until you are in the money. And remember also... the basic odds of poker... when the 2nd ace hits the board and they go all in... the odds of him having another one are only 5%. I hope you get more replies to this because I'm kinda new but it seems you are letting your emotions get in your way of making good decisions. I think of blinds as the cost to play the game. I don't think of a blind as my money.. I didn't bet it and don't mind losing it most times. Save your chips for those 2 or 3 hands you need to play right to win the chip lead or get into the money. If you keep losing and folding after a few bets, you will not have the chips to make the 2 or 3 hands you do get count. Gosh, I hope all this rambling makes some kind of sense to you. BamaDoug    Report

01-19-2008, 12:55 PM IM_NOT_LION Joined on 01-05-2007 Portland Oregon Posts 69 Re: Loose Players I agree that Bama's style can be successful. I however play them a little bit differently. I tend to fight fire with fire and play back at the loose raisers. The common rule of thumb is to play the opposite of your table, e.g. tight table = play loose, loose table = play tight. But when a maniac is raising every pot the TABLE isnt playing loose, just the maniac, so I treat this table as tight and I loosen up. Now this dosnt mean that I call an all-in with 8-10 suited, but I may call a raise with it because I know that I may bust my opponent with the right flop. And once I bust him then I have a whole table of tight players to myself. These players will now have your table image burned into the skull as a loose caller who likes to gamble, and as Doyle says thats the best image for NL hold em. Your job now is to switch gears and suprise them. gl "If you call, one of us is going to be disappointed"    Report

01-20-2008, 10:52 AM QUADLADY Joined on 07-26-2006 IL Posts 53 Re: Loose Players I think it is easy to tell when the loose players actually have a hand vs a hand they probably shouldnt be raising with. I like taking my time and busting em by there own game. Sometimes you have to take a little risk to nail them. ~BELL    Report

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